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More randomness for pitching in 19? :(

10 days ago 11 Likes

I get what SDS is trying to do, I really do, but they are approaching it completely wrong.

They are trying to prevent the “spamming” of certain pitches (such as low offspeed in 18, or high and tight fastballs in 17), but they are completely going to ruin this game if they simply add more random outcomes to pitching.

If I’m playing an opponent that simply can’t hit a curveball, then I’m going to keep throwing a curveball.  I shouldn’t be punished for exploiting my opponents weakness.  Baseball (in real life) is all about trying to find your opponents’ weakness and taking advantage of it.

For a development company that claims to make a “baseball sim”, they sure are taking away the things that actually occur in real baseball games.

10 days ago 4 Likes
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10 days ago 2 Likes

An example is Cody Bellinger in the ws two years  ago. He had trouble with the curve, so guess what he saw the majority of the time.

I think it was Charlie Morton, pitching to Bellinger,  threw almost exclusively curveballs, particularly one at bat where he went down swinging at one in the dirt.

I could wrong on the pitcher. 

Seems odd to punish a player for working out what your opponent can't hit.

I guess we'll see.

 

 

 

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10 days ago 7 Likes

Contact hitters will have more meatballs gifted in order to make them "matter more".

 

Just kidding.

...I hope.

 

At the end of the day, I just hope this isn't another black box mechanic. If my opponent can't hit a CB or slider, how much of a hit do I take by throwing it twice in a row? What does that 'hit' look like - is it just a straight up meatball regardless of input? Does the "spamming" carry over from hitter to hitter? Does it only affect pitches in succession? Ultimately, how do I know when I can safely throw the pitch I WANT to throw?

Without knowing when the RNG is most likely to strike, it kills any and all strategy. You're essentially forced to 'spam' the primary pitch (even if it isn't their primary IRL) regardless of your opponent's weaknesses or approach.

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10 days ago 2 Likes

It's likely going to be even worse than you think.  Not only did they say you would lose effectiveness by spamming pitches, but they have also said it is going to be harder to control your non-primary pitches even when you aren't spamming them.  Get ready for the perfectly thrown 0-2 change that floats down the middle.

10 days ago 6 Likes

I mentioned this yesterday. This is why I dont trust SDS they can change whatever they want but without a change in philosophy then it really is just a bunch of bandaids. I understand some or even most players might like these changes. But I dont so thats why I didnt preorder. My prediction is legend will be very hard and be alot more user imput based. But out side of that we will have a very similer game to 18. Batting averages will be about 50 points higher with the higher pitcher RNG and timing be more of a factor in hitting. But the overall feel of the game will be the same.

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10 days ago 5 Likes

Players want pitching too perfect. Only the best of the best can consistently hit their spots. THOSE pitchers and ONLY those pitchers should have the kind of control half the pitchers in The Show have. Placing a curveball is difficult. Not many pitchers can spot their secondary stuff. Some pitchers can’t even spot a fastball. 

I don’t like the idea of spamming penalties. That should naturally occur by your opponent adjusting. 

10 days ago 3 Likes

It's likely going to be even worse than you think.  Not only did they say you would lose effectiveness by spamming pitches, but they have also said it is going to be harder to control your non-primary pitches even when you aren't spamming them.  Get ready for the perfectly thrown 0-2 change that floats down the middle.

Comment by GradektheBard
29 minutes ago

I had enough good/good releases in 2018 go right down the middle of the plate.  One of the reasons I stopped playing very early.

10 days ago

I get what SDS is trying to do, I really do, but they are approaching it completely wrong.

They are trying to prevent the “spamming” of certain pitches (such as low offspeed in 18, or high and tight fastballs in 17), but they are completely going to ruin this game if they simply add more random outcomes to pitching.

If I’m playing an opponent that simply can’t hit a curveball, then I’m going to keep throwing a curveball.  I shouldn’t be punished for exploiting my opponents weakness.  Baseball (in real life) is all about trying to find your opponents’ weakness and taking advantage of it.

For a development company that claims to make a “baseball sim”, they sure are taking away the things that actually occur in real baseball games.

Comment by MiJuJuKaLa
about 8 hours ago

You can still spam a high and tight fastball IF the fastball is the pitcher's primary pitch. We'll see how implementation works but the point is if a splitter is a pitcher's "R1" pitch, you shouldn't be able to spam that pitch like it is their "X" pitch. That pitcher is known for their primary pitch, not their 4th or 5th best pitch. Bruce Sutter is known for throwing splitters on a consistent basis, Nathan Eovaldi is not.

10 days ago 9 Likes

I think this is a huge red flag.

the randomness of pitching in 18 was a huge disappointment and one of the main anger inducing aspects of 18.

there is only one, main reason to introduce RNG into pitching....to lower the skill gap and to appease players who have no discipline and swing at everything.

if 19 has the same RNG elements to pitching, especially with secondary pitches, this could be a huge hit to the overall success of 19.

SDS, do the right thing and revert pitching outcomes to how they should be and how they were in 17.

Sincerely,

Everyone

10 days ago 7 Likes

So we won't be able to get our confidence up on secondary pitches?  Ridiculous.  We should be able to throw what we want when we want.

  If I can't adjust to what my opponent is throwing as a hitter,  that's my problem.  

10 days ago 2 Likes

There has to be a degree of rng tied to location when it comes to pitches or else a player’s stick skills will override the pitchers attributes and people will start throwing darts with a 60 OVR pitcher’s third pitch. Maybe it should be toned down, but it needs to be there, even for the great pitchers.

Dont know how I feel about the spamming penalty, but if it isn’t huge and takes a lot of spamming to really kick in, then I doubt I will care that much. But I need to see the execution.

10 days ago 1 Like

It's likely going to be even worse than you think.  Not only did they say you would lose effectiveness by spamming pitches, but they have also said it is going to be harder to control your non-primary pitches even when you aren't spamming them.  Get ready for the perfectly thrown 0-2 change that floats down the middle.

Comment by GradektheBard
about 2 hours ago

I had enough good/good releases in 2018 go right down the middle of the plate.  One of the reasons I stopped playing very early.

Comment by D_e_m_I_s_E
about 1 hour ago

This was definitely a huge problem. I get that you shouldn't be able to dot corners every time your release is perfect, but shouldn't it at least be close? You shouldn't get punished with a meatball on a perfect release. At least miss down.

10 days ago 1 Like

I definitely agree with most here. Throwing a lot of offspeed shouldn't specifically be penalized. At the same time, find a way to make it harder to have pinpoint control.

10 days ago

I’m not sure I agree with OP here. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this actually plays.

If the end result is players needing to mix their pitches to be successful, I think that is a good thing.

The pitching meta this past year was not that realistic, although I know some disagree. Yes, pitchers throw what hitters can’t handle, and the analytics are there to let everyone know what that is. 

That said, when few players have an average over .200, there is a problem. My view of that problem is that, even if a hitter is selective and only swings at good pitches to hit, in the meta we’ve had, it is very possible/likely that he will just not see any good pitches to hit.

Here’s what I mean: on the current season, my OBP is .270, but my average is like .150. Obviously, I am not a good hitter in this meta. I believe this is because I don’t hit low offspeed pitches well. Most of my hits are mistake pitches in the middle of the zone or up.

IMO, SDS had to do something to change the meta, because it is just not realistic for pitchers to be able to constantly paint the corners with offspeed.

(prepares for assault of “git gud” comments)

10 days ago 2 Likes

This is pretty much the same thing as it is for hitting.  It doesn't matter the pitch, count, location, etc, if you put the PCI on the ball it should be hit hard.  If you can make good/good pitches it should come really close to where you put it.  A good/good pitch should never be over the middle of the plate if that is not where I put the ball. 

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10 days ago 5 Likes

There has to be a degree of rng tied to location when it comes to pitches or else a player’s stick skills will override the pitchers attributes and people will start throwing darts with a 60 OVR pitcher’s third pitch. Maybe it should be toned down, but it needs to be there, even for the great pitchers.

Dont know how I feel about the spamming penalty, but if it isn’t huge and takes a lot of spamming to really kick in, then I doubt I will care that much. But I need to see the execution.

Comment by Better4Ever
25 minutes ago

Doesn't worse control for a pitcher mean the marks are harder to hit on pitching?  So you want to take out player skill?  What is the difference between this and not rewarding a player for putting the PCI on the ball?  User skill should matter.  Players attributes should make it easier or harder to hit these marks i.e. smaller pci, tougher to hit marks while pitching.  The user should not be punished for being able to do what you are supposed to do in the game. 

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10 days ago 1 Like

They should just let user input determine how effective you can be with a hitter/pitcher.  Attributes of the card should determine ease of use to the player

The stats this game generates are all out of whack anyways.  There is nothing sim about cpu or online stats 

If you can use a team of 60’s and beat an all diamond team because you are better than the other guy more power to you.  

10 days ago

We'll see but I think the thing is more "breaking pitches won't break as much," not "it will hang over the plate."

10 days ago 1 Like

They have to do this because they refuse to adjust the difficulty of pitching inputs.  The only thing that will ever affect your ability to pitch for meter or analog is if the yellow timing bar goes away.  It's still feasible to counter act when that happens anyway.  

Instead of inserting randomness into the equation just up the difficulty of input.  I'll beat a dead horse again but MLB 2k nailed pitching in their game.  Pitching inputs got harder both as stamina and effectiveness decreased.  Using pitchers with lower control ratings were harder to execute as well.  Throwing the first pitch with your starting pitcher was completely different timing wise than your 75th pitch.  I was biased to the analog controls as well but that's another story.

*In reference to the Lance McCullers situation, that was incredibly rare and he was pitching with 4 run lead.  If you watch the video, some of those pitches were hangers that no one pulled the trigger on.  

 

 

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10 days ago

GradektheBard 

10 minutes ago 

@Chuck_Dizzle29

Make everyone use pulse.  That would solve the problem for both player stats and user input.

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Have you ever played one of those timing based games at the arcade?  They could easily just program it to where if the effectiveness has gone down enough you can't get a perfect input, just like an arcade game.  Besides that, in what world does timing something once considered more difficult than something that requires timing and correct directional movement?

P.S. I'd rather punch myself in the balls than use pulse pitching

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10 days ago

Guys to be honest, go watch a game and right down the amount of times a pitcher hits the catchers glove without the catcher having to move it even slightly...It is not that high of a percentage 30/40 for best guys in the league. I get it;s a video game but they want to make it close to real life. A guy with zero control should not put the ball where you placed it even if you hit the line and circle on analog. 

10 days ago 1 Like

Guys to be honest, go watch a game and right down the amount of times a pitcher hits the catchers glove without the catcher having to move it even slightly...It is not that high of a percentage 30/40 for best guys in the league. I get it;s a video game but they want to make it close to real life. A guy with zero control should not put the ball where you placed it even if you hit the line and circle on analog. 

Comment by cvogsfashow
2 minutes ago

Correct, but I think the issue is the user would prefer to miss their spot because their input sucked not because the game decided to "Hold up, wait a minute, put a little RNG in it".

10 days ago

Guys to be honest, go watch a game and right down the amount of times a pitcher hits the catchers glove without the catcher having to move it even slightly...It is not that high of a percentage 30/40 for best guys in the league. I get it;s a video game but they want to make it close to real life. A guy with zero control should not put the ball where you placed it even if you hit the line and circle on analog. 

Comment by cvogsfashow
7 minutes ago

Correct, but I think the issue is the user would prefer to miss their spot because their input sucked not because the game decided to "Hold up, wait a minute, put a little RNG in it".

Comment by Chuck_Dizzle29
5 minutes ago

I don't disagree but there is not much of a difference especially playing analog between a guy with bad control versus a guy with good control when it comes to user input. May be they should of adjusted the green line thickness or the speed of the line dropping down, but even doing that everyone can get use to a pitcher and be able to then have 100 control with a guy like AJ Burnett. IF pitching is strictly user input only,,,control stat does not matter than IMO.

10 days ago

Guys to be honest, go watch a game and right down the amount of times a pitcher hits the catchers glove without the catcher having to move it even slightly...It is not that high of a percentage 30/40 for best guys in the league. I get it;s a video game but they want to make it close to real life. A guy with zero control should not put the ball where you placed it even if you hit the line and circle on analog. 

Comment by cvogsfashow
16 minutes ago

Correct, but I think the issue is the user would prefer to miss their spot because their input sucked not because the game decided to "Hold up, wait a minute, put a little RNG in it".

Comment by Chuck_Dizzle29
14 minutes ago

I don't disagree but there is not much of a difference especially playing analog between a guy with bad control versus a guy with good control when it comes to user input. May be they should of adjusted the green line thickness or the speed of the line dropping down, but even doing that everyone can get use to a pitcher and be able to then have 100 control with a guy like AJ Burnett. IF pitching is strictly user input only,,,control stat does not matter than IMO.

Comment by cvogsfashow
9 minutes ago

Not 100% true, the timing is to the yellow line and back up to the spot is less forgiving with lower control and BB/9 pitchers.  

This is why the user experience executing the input should not be a consistent experience.  When you speed up the process accuracy goes down.  It should get harder the more tired a pitcher gets and the less confident he is.  

In MLB 2k despite how good I was at executing the controls it always got to a point where I couldn't override the system because the pitcher was too tired or the effectiveness was to low.  I could tell just by playing that something was getting off.  In the Show, I can be on my 90th pitch with no confidence but I can still hit my spot perfectly.  It's simple, find a spot in the background where the yellow line is, so when it disappears you still know where to go.