You must have Javascript enabled to view this content.

99s Not 5 Tool?

11 days ago

A first baseman who can't field aside (I get it with Thomas since 1B fielding isn't a real priority), how can a player who doesn't have at least, for sake of argument, 75 power be considered a 99? A 99 is the best rating a player can get, there are no 100s. Therefore anybody who is a 99 should be good at everything and great at some things minimum. Otherwise they are "fake" 99s since "better" 99s will exist. Either that or when a sig series Griffey or Hornsby comes out, they should be over 100.

11 days ago 1 Like

I don’t understand the point of having a 99 overall cap when it’s clear that some players surpass this rating. Why not just show their actual rating? 

10 days ago

Because the attributes equate to a 99 just because it’s a 99 doesn’t mean it will have all 99 stats.

10 days ago

Because the attributes equate to a 99 just because it’s a 99 doesn’t mean it will have all 99 stats.

Comment by NicholasHowardT5
about 6 hours ago

I didn't say all 99 stats, I said 5 tool. They should have "high" contact, "high" power, "high" fielding. Even my example said 75/125, not 99.

10 days ago 1 Like

Because stats aren't valued equally across positions. The stats that make you a 99 first baseman are not the same as being a 99 shortstop or 99 outfielder.

  • SP - Stamina and per9/s
  • RP/CP - High per/9s and clutch
  • C - Defense. Defense. Defense. Offensive catchers are historically very rare that a catcher can hit well enough to outweigh the benefits of pitch calling, framing, and holding runners.  
  • 1B - Hitting
  • 2B - Being able to do anything related to baseball is a plus. Usually shortstops who are defensive liabilities or 3rd basemen who don't have enough power to justify keeping them on the corner. Sometimes you see speed guys here but they usually get moved to the outfield where their speed is more valuable. You will see a lot of guys here who are pretty good at a lot of different things but not amazing at anything.
  • 3B - Hitting first and if they can play defense, even better
  • SS - Defense first. Most offensive shortstops are contact hitters and power at the position is pretty much limited to ARod and Ernie Banks.
  • LF - Similar to 1B where hitting is valued the most and defense a distant second
  • CF - Probably the best athlete on the field. You will find most of your all time 5 tool players here. Duke, Griffey, Trout, Snider, Mantle, Cobb, Dimaggio, Mays.
  • RF - Has to make the longest throws in the game and you will usually see two prototypes of player here. Speed + Arm (Ichiro, Gwynn, Betts, Clemente) and Power + Arm (Ruth, Aaron, Reggie, Winfield, Kaline, Frank Robinson)
10 days ago

Do you have any examples in mind? I only think of 99 players as among the elite at their position, not necessarily THE best. And ultimately, does it matter that much? The overalls are an indicator, but you should always be paying more attention to the individual attributes anyway. And this is especially true since 99 is obviously a hard cap.

10 days ago

Because stats aren't valued equally across positions. The stats that make you a 99 first baseman are not the same as being a 99 shortstop or 99 outfielder.

  • SP - Stamina and per9/s
  • RP/CP - High per/9s and clutch
  • C - Defense. Defense. Defense. Offensive catchers are historically very rare that a catcher can hit well enough to outweigh the benefits of pitch calling, framing, and holding runners.  
  • 1B - Hitting
  • 2B - Being able to do anything related to baseball is a plus. Usually shortstops who are defensive liabilities or 3rd basemen who don't have enough power to justify keeping them on the corner. Sometimes you see speed guys here but they usually get moved to the outfield where their speed is more valuable. You will see a lot of guys here who are pretty good at a lot of different things but not amazing at anything.
  • 3B - Hitting first and if they can play defense, even better
  • SS - Defense first. Most offensive shortstops are contact hitters and power at the position is pretty much limited to ARod and Ernie Banks.
  • LF - Similar to 1B where hitting is valued the most and defense a distant second
  • CF - Probably the best athlete on the field. You will find most of your all time 5 tool players here. Duke, Griffey, Trout, Snider, Mantle, Cobb, Dimaggio, Mays.
  • RF - Has to make the longest throws in the game and you will usually see two prototypes of player here. Speed + Arm (Ichiro, Gwynn, Betts, Clemente) and Power + Arm (Ruth, Aaron, Reggie, Winfield, Kaline, Frank Robinson)
Comment by DaddyPhatSaks
23 minutes ago

Look at Hornsby's best year. Then tell me he should have the same rating as 99 Joe Morgan.

10 days ago

Because stats aren't valued equally across positions. The stats that make you a 99 first baseman are not the same as being a 99 shortstop or 99 outfielder.

  • SP - Stamina and per9/s
  • RP/CP - High per/9s and clutch
  • C - Defense. Defense. Defense. Offensive catchers are historically very rare that a catcher can hit well enough to outweigh the benefits of pitch calling, framing, and holding runners.  
  • 1B - Hitting
  • 2B - Being able to do anything related to baseball is a plus. Usually shortstops who are defensive liabilities or 3rd basemen who don't have enough power to justify keeping them on the corner. Sometimes you see speed guys here but they usually get moved to the outfield where their speed is more valuable. You will see a lot of guys here who are pretty good at a lot of different things but not amazing at anything.
  • 3B - Hitting first and if they can play defense, even better
  • SS - Defense first. Most offensive shortstops are contact hitters and power at the position is pretty much limited to ARod and Ernie Banks.
  • LF - Similar to 1B where hitting is valued the most and defense a distant second
  • CF - Probably the best athlete on the field. You will find most of your all time 5 tool players here. Duke, Griffey, Trout, Snider, Mantle, Cobb, Dimaggio, Mays.
  • RF - Has to make the longest throws in the game and you will usually see two prototypes of player here. Speed + Arm (Ichiro, Gwynn, Betts, Clemente) and Power + Arm (Ruth, Aaron, Reggie, Winfield, Kaline, Frank Robinson)
Comment by DaddyPhatSaks
about 1 hour ago

Look at Hornsby's best year. Then tell me he should have the same rating as 99 Joe Morgan.

Comment by ag1982
30 minutes ago

They'll both be a 99 max overall but for different reasons.  Joe kills RHP and has great speed and defense.  Hornsby will be dominate both LHP and RHP, with less speed and passable defense.  

What's great about that is you can make an argument to play either one.  You give up consistency on offense with Joe Morgan, but with Hornsby you sacrifice speed and defense.

10 days ago

Because stats aren't valued equally across positions. The stats that make you a 99 first baseman are not the same as being a 99 shortstop or 99 outfielder.

  • SP - Stamina and per9/s
  • RP/CP - High per/9s and clutch
  • C - Defense. Defense. Defense. Offensive catchers are historically very rare that a catcher can hit well enough to outweigh the benefits of pitch calling, framing, and holding runners.  
  • 1B - Hitting
  • 2B - Being able to do anything related to baseball is a plus. Usually shortstops who are defensive liabilities or 3rd basemen who don't have enough power to justify keeping them on the corner. Sometimes you see speed guys here but they usually get moved to the outfield where their speed is more valuable. You will see a lot of guys here who are pretty good at a lot of different things but not amazing at anything.
  • 3B - Hitting first and if they can play defense, even better
  • SS - Defense first. Most offensive shortstops are contact hitters and power at the position is pretty much limited to ARod and Ernie Banks.
  • LF - Similar to 1B where hitting is valued the most and defense a distant second
  • CF - Probably the best athlete on the field. You will find most of your all time 5 tool players here. Duke, Griffey, Trout, Snider, Mantle, Cobb, Dimaggio, Mays.
  • RF - Has to make the longest throws in the game and you will usually see two prototypes of player here. Speed + Arm (Ichiro, Gwynn, Betts, Clemente) and Power + Arm (Ruth, Aaron, Reggie, Winfield, Kaline, Frank Robinson)
Comment by DaddyPhatSaks
about 1 hour ago

Look at Hornsby's best year. Then tell me he should have the same rating as 99 Joe Morgan.

Comment by ag1982
42 minutes ago

They'll both be a 99 max overall but for different reasons.  Joe kills RHP and has great speed and defense.  Hornsby will be dominate both LHP and RHP, with less speed and passable defense.  

What's great about that is you can make an argument to play either one.  You give up consistency on offense with Joe Morgan, but with Hornsby you sacrifice speed and defense.

Comment by Chuck_Dizzle29
12 minutes ago

Passable defense? In 27 his dWAR was 1.8, in 29 it was 1.6. In 17 it was 3.5! Most years he was comparable to Morgan. So his sig card should have a very good fielding rating. The only thing he shouldn't have compared to Morgan is speed (which shouldn't be terrible terrible because he did swipe over 10 bags for a number of years).

10 days ago 1 Like
...

Look at Hornsby's best year. Then tell me he should have the same rating as 99 Joe Morgan.

Comment by ag1982
about 1 hour ago

They'll both be a 99 max overall but for different reasons.  Joe kills RHP and has great speed and defense.  Hornsby will be dominate both LHP and RHP, with less speed and passable defense.  

What's great about that is you can make an argument to play either one.  You give up consistency on offense with Joe Morgan, but with Hornsby you sacrifice speed and defense.

Comment by Chuck_Dizzle29
31 minutes ago

Passable defense? In 27 his dWAR was 1.8, in 29 it was 1.6. In 17 it was 3.5! Most years he was comparable to Morgan. So his sig card should have a very good fielding rating. The only thing he shouldn't have compared to Morgan is speed (which shouldn't be terrible terrible because he did swipe over 10 bags for a number of years).

Comment by ag1982
25 minutes ago

They had absolutely no advanced metrics for fielding.  Read up on Hornsby's bio and you'll learn all you need to know.  He was a terrible SS and 3B, so they moved him to 2nd base because he had to play somewhere.  He got better, but injuries derailed his career especially on the defensive side.

Hornsby's career fielding percentage at 2B is .965 to Joe Morgan's .981

Hornsby made 307 errors to Morgan's 244 (Joe Morgan also made over 1,800 more attempts in his career)

As a die hard Cardinals fan I was being nice calling Hornsby's defense passable.

 

10 days ago 1 Like

They also played in different eras. There are too many variables between a player that played pre integration and several years of his career during the dead ball era (Hornsby) to one that played post integration, entirely in the live-ball era, and had the benefit of better equipment (Morgan). Just appreciate them for being among the best during their respective times playing the game. Both deserve to be 99s

Show Replies