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Have you ever seen Joe Carter play. Dude played like a HOF. I think he belongs if these dudes belong off the top of my head:

Harold Baines, Kirby Puckett,Tim Raines, Orlando Cepeda, Tony Perez, Enos Slaughter, Earl Combs. Joe Carter is better or comparable to each of these guys.

Comment by Maverick31762
9/22/2019 2:39PM PDT

"Played like a HOF"

But he didn't? Aside from a walkoff homer in the world series, what did he do that was Hall of Fame worthy?

 

For reference, that 17.1 fWAR is tied with guys like Brad Ausmus, Braggo Roth, JT Realmuto (A real life active player), and Cliff Johnson

9/22/2019 3:47PM PDT
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Have you ever seen Joe Carter play. Dude played like a HOF. I think he belongs if these dudes belong off the top of my head:

Harold Baines, Kirby Puckett,Tim Raines, Orlando Cepeda, Tony Perez, Enos Slaughter, Earl Combs. Joe Carter is better or comparable to each of these guys.

Comment by Maverick31762
9/22/2019 4:39PM CDT

C’mon now man, you can’t be serious with that. Saying “he played like a hall of hamer” means nothing when his stats are not hall of fame level stats. 

Puckett: 44.9 fWAR

Raines: 66.4 fWAR

Cepeda: 50.3 fWAR

Perez: 58.9 fWAR

Slaughter: 51.4 fWAR

Combs: 41.3 fWAR

As you can see, Joe carter isn’t even close to any of those guys. He had one big homerun, and a mediocre career.

 

9/22/2019 4:35PM PDT
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Have you ever seen Joe Carter play. Dude played like a HOF. I think he belongs if these dudes belong off the top of my head:

Harold Baines, Kirby Puckett,Tim Raines, Orlando Cepeda, Tony Perez, Enos Slaughter, Earl Combs. Joe Carter is better or comparable to each of these guys.

Comment by Maverick31762
9/22/2019 2:39PM PDT

Carter is one of those low OBP/high RBI guys that advanced metrics were literally invented for.

Had he played in the 60s, he might have gotten in before everyone wised up.  Now, he's stuck in the Hall of Good.

9/22/2019 4:43PM PDT
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No Ichiro, I suck playing with him and suck pitching again him...LOL  

Comment by HDTowOp
9/22/2019 12:03PM PDT

Pound high and inside - not enough power to take you deep, if he connects its a line out, if not it's not strong enough to bloop

9/22/2019 6:36PM PDT
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C’mon now man, you can’t be serious with that. Saying “he played like a hall of hamer” means nothing when his stats are not hall of fame level stats. 

Puckett: 44.9 fWAR

Raines: 66.4 fWAR

Cepeda: 50.3 fWAR

Perez: 58.9 fWAR

Slaughter: 51.4 fWAR

Combs: 41.3 fWAR

As you can see, Joe carter isn’t even close to any of those guys. He had one big homerun, and a mediocre career.

 

Comment by DriveByTrucker17
9/22/2019 4:35PM PDT

Joe Carter = Eric Hosmer - post season heroes that were average to slightly above average for their careers.

This coming from a Royals fan.

9/22/2019 6:40PM PDT
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C’mon now man, you can’t be serious with that. Saying “he played like a hall of hamer” means nothing when his stats are not hall of fame level stats. 

Puckett: 44.9 fWAR

Raines: 66.4 fWAR

Cepeda: 50.3 fWAR

Perez: 58.9 fWAR

Slaughter: 51.4 fWAR

Combs: 41.3 fWAR

As you can see, Joe carter isn’t even close to any of those guys. He had one big homerun, and a mediocre career.

 

Comment by DriveByTrucker17
9/22/2019 4:35PM PDT

You do realize that WAR is not the only stat. Dude drive ibtuns like it was nobodies business. Plus he had power and speed combo

9/22/2019 10:55PM PDT
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You do realize that WAR is not the only stat. Dude drive ibtuns like it was nobodies business. Plus he had power and speed combo

Comment by Maverick31762
9/23/2019 12:55AM CDT

I’m using fWAR to show how big the gap between carter and literally every  hall of famer is. Joe carter does not belong in the HoF, he was just an average to slightly above average player. He never had a 5 fWAR season, only had 4 fWAR twice. His best wRC+ was 125. His best OPS was .849.

You can’t seriously say he belongs in the hall of fame with those numbers. 

9/22/2019 11:12PM PDT
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You do realize that WAR is not the only stat. Dude drive ibtuns like it was nobodies business. Plus he had power and speed combo

Comment by Maverick31762
9/22/2019 10:55PM PDT

WAR's not the only stat, but it's very compelling in this case. I would argue though, that even the traditional stats you look at don't get him in...

He had fewer than 400 home runs/1500 rbi's and had a batting average lower than .275.

Hed be the only outfielder in the HOF with those low of traditional counting stats across the board.

9/23/2019 6:17AM PDT
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No Ichiro, I suck playing with him and suck pitching again him...LOL  

Comment by HDTowOp
9/22/2019 12:03PM PDT

How do you suck with the best hitter in the game?

9/23/2019 6:26AM PDT

Joe Carter 

6x 30 HR seasons

6x 20 SB season

1x 30-30 member

10x 100RBI season

6 100 RBI seasons in a row

5x All-Star

 

You are all using WAR as evidence that Joe Carter isnt a top borderline HOF talent. I use Joe Carter as an example of WAR not capturing a great players ability.

Also for clarity I am  it so much arguing for Joe in the HOF I just think he was light years better than Harold Baines and when viewed through the prism of longevity and playing on  both sides of the ball he had a better career than Edgar

 

9/23/2019 1:45PM PDT

Joe Carter 

6x 30 HR seasons

6x 20 SB season

1x 30-30 member

10x 100RBI season

6 100 RBI seasons in a row

5x All-Star

 

You are all using WAR as evidence that Joe Carter isnt a top borderline HOF talent. I use Joe Carter as an example of WAR not capturing a great players ability.

Also for clarity I am  it so much arguing for Joe in the HOF I just think he was light years better than Harold Baines and when viewed through the prism of longevity and playing on  both sides of the ball he had a better career than Edgar

 

Comment by Maverick31762
9/23/2019 1:45PM PDT

Based on more conventional Metrics, Harold Baines had a higher Batting Average, On Base Percentage, Slugging percentage, and OPS. Baines played a significantly longer career as well (2830 v 2189 games). I don't even particularly think Baines is Hall of Fame worthy, but if he's the barometer you use, he's arguably superior

As for Edgar Martinez, I can't believe anyone would make the case that Carter is better. Joe Carter may have been a marginally better defender, but the offensive gap is so large that it doesn't even matter. aside from HR and Triples, there isn't a category that Edgar isn't significantly better than Carter. Edgar's big stink was that he was a DH and there are voters who think DH's don't count as baseball players

9/23/2019 1:59PM PDT

Joe Carter 

6x 30 HR seasons

6x 20 SB season

1x 30-30 member

10x 100RBI season

6 100 RBI seasons in a row

5x All-Star

 

You are all using WAR as evidence that Joe Carter isnt a top borderline HOF talent. I use Joe Carter as an example of WAR not capturing a great players ability.

Also for clarity I am  it so much arguing for Joe in the HOF I just think he was light years better than Harold Baines and when viewed through the prism of longevity and playing on  both sides of the ball he had a better career than Edgar

 

Comment by Maverick31762
9/23/2019 3:45PM CDT

Good God man, you’re reaching so far now. Hitting 30 homeruns doesn’t mean squat if the player isn’t actually a good hitter. Stolen bases really do not matter. We know now that they do not add much at all to a player’s offensive value. 30-30 one time isn’t enough to get into the hall of fame. Having 100 RBI doesn’t matter, because RBI is not a stat that matters. All star appearances are fan voted, therefore they do not matter either.

fWAR takes every aspect of a player and gives us their value. It’s the most fair way to compare players with any play style. Joe carter hit homeruns, but he was not that good of a hitter as a whole. If Joe carter was so great, he would not have only 17 career fWAR. WAR does not “miss” a player, or “not capture a player’s ability.” He was not that good, period. Harold baines is much more deserving than Carter, and that’s saying a lot. Saying carter had a better career than Martinez is just ignorant and stupid. They weren’t even close.

I’ll still give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not serious. Because if you are serious, you’re extremely misinformed and misguided and have no idea what you’re talking about.

9/23/2019 2:10PM PDT
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Ichiro is still in my lineup. Hes a bloop hit god

Comment by SeanOG82
9/22/2019 12:09PM PDT

Lofton is my vote for bloop hit king.  I was hitting .480 for a long time with him.

9/23/2019 2:36PM PDT

Its easily gonna be Signature Miguel Cabrera for the AL reward thats why they said that lol

9/23/2019 2:38PM PDT

Joe Carter 

6x 30 HR seasons

6x 20 SB season

1x 30-30 member

10x 100RBI season

6 100 RBI seasons in a row

5x All-Star

 

You are all using WAR as evidence that Joe Carter isnt a top borderline HOF talent. I use Joe Carter as an example of WAR not capturing a great players ability.

Also for clarity I am  it so much arguing for Joe in the HOF I just think he was light years better than Harold Baines and when viewed through the prism of longevity and playing on  both sides of the ball he had a better career than Edgar

 

Comment by Maverick31762
9/23/2019 1:45PM PDT

Carter didn't become a full time regular until he was 25 - so he just didn't compile the numbers needed to get in with that low of a batting average and other poor advanced metrics. A .259 BA, .309 OBP is closer to the top HOF pitchers than top batters. A guy with a similar BA is Killibrew - difference is that Killibrew had 150 some odd more home runs and a few hundred more RBI's. The stats you mentioned might get you in as a catcher or second baseman - not a corner outfielder.

9/23/2019 4:19PM PDT
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Carter didn't become a full time regular until he was 25 - so he just didn't compile the numbers needed to get in with that low of a batting average and other poor advanced metrics. A .259 BA, .309 OBP is closer to the top HOF pitchers than top batters. A guy with a similar BA is Killibrew - difference is that Killibrew had 150 some odd more home runs and a few hundred more RBI's. The stats you mentioned might get you in as a catcher or second baseman - not a corner outfielder.

Comment by tonyc149
9/23/2019 4:19PM PDT

Speaking of second basemen...We need to talk about a man truly robbed of his Hall of Fame plaque, Bobby Grich.

9/23/2019 4:27PM PDT
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Speaking of second basemen...We need to talk about a man truly robbed of his Hall of Fame plaque, Bobby Grich.

Comment by ImDFC
9/23/2019 4:27PM PDT

All for sabermetrics and advanced stats, but this is the type of player they can lose me on. It's the Hall of Fame, not the hall of I spend 5 minutes on google to see if he's a real player. I'm not a casual fan but my age (mid 30's) hampers my knowledge of this area a bit. He just doesn't jump off the page to me.

9/23/2019 4:40PM PDT
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All for sabermetrics and advanced stats, but this is the type of player they can lose me on. It's the Hall of Fame, not the hall of I spend 5 minutes on google to see if he's a real player. I'm not a casual fan but my age (mid 30's) hampers my knowledge of this area a bit. He just doesn't jump off the page to me.

Comment by tonyc149
9/23/2019 4:40PM PDT

He's extremely comparable to Chase Utley, Who I also believe should be in the hall of fame when eligible. Utley was undoubtedly the best 2B of his career(Especially since Cano is a juicer). But they're both hurt by how well rounded they were. They were also hurt by some outside factors (Utley losing two seasons to Placido Polanco refusing to play third base, Grich choosing the Angels over the Yankees)

9/23/2019 4:55PM PDT
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Speaking of second basemen...We need to talk about a man truly robbed of his Hall of Fame plaque, Bobby Grich.

Comment by ImDFC
9/23/2019 6:27PM CDT

There really isn’t an argument to be made for joe carter getting into the hall of fame, because the numbers aren’t good enough. 

Bobby Grich, on the other hand, definitely should be in the hall of fame. He is a prime example of why we don’t need old writers that don’t understand even the simplest metrics. 

69.1 fWAR absolutely warrants a hall of fame plaque, no question. The BBWAA will be much better once all the old guys are gone and new, smarter, analytically driven writers replace them.

9/23/2019 5:07PM PDT
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He's extremely comparable to Chase Utley, Who I also believe should be in the hall of fame when eligible. Utley was undoubtedly the best 2B of his career(Especially since Cano is a juicer). But they're both hurt by how well rounded they were. They were also hurt by some outside factors (Utley losing two seasons to Placido Polanco refusing to play third base, Grich choosing the Angels over the Yankees)

Comment by ImDFC
9/23/2019 4:55PM PDT

As a Phillies fan I’m biased but Utley absolutely belongs in the Hall.  His 05-09 seasons are among the greatest ever by a 2B.  His intangibles were off the charts too.  The absolutely do not win 5 division titles and a WS without him.

best analogy I’ve heard- Sandy Koufax is essentially in the Hall for 5 seasons, 5 seasons that were historically good.  Chase is in the same boat.  5 amazing seasons, a handful of good/very good, and is hurt by not having played full time until he was 25.

9/23/2019 5:24PM PDT
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As a Phillies fan I’m biased but Utley absolutely belongs in the Hall.  His 05-09 seasons are among the greatest ever by a 2B.  His intangibles were off the charts too.  The absolutely do not win 5 division titles and a WS without him.

best analogy I’ve heard- Sandy Koufax is essentially in the Hall for 5 seasons, 5 seasons that were historically good.  Chase is in the same boat.  5 amazing seasons, a handful of good/very good, and is hurt by not having played full time until he was 25.

Comment by Dino-might_not
9/23/2019 7:24PM CDT

Yeah utley absolutely deserves to get into the Hall. He only had 0.7 less fWAR than Roberto alomar, despite only playing 43 and 94 games in his first two seasons and with one less year played. 

9/23/2019 5:45PM PDT
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As a Phillies fan I’m biased but Utley absolutely belongs in the Hall.  His 05-09 seasons are among the greatest ever by a 2B.  His intangibles were off the charts too.  The absolutely do not win 5 division titles and a WS without him.

best analogy I’ve heard- Sandy Koufax is essentially in the Hall for 5 seasons, 5 seasons that were historically good.  Chase is in the same boat.  5 amazing seasons, a handful of good/very good, and is hurt by not having played full time until he was 25.

Comment by Dino-might_not
9/23/2019 5:24PM PDT

I see Utley as a borderline guy for me. I think he was very very good for a short period of time. If push came to shove I think he gets in. With that being said, I don't think you can compare him to a guy like Koufax. It's just a different level. Koufax for those 5 years was an inner circle hall of fame level player. Utley never had that stretch of dominance, or at least perceived dominance. The Robbie Alomar comp is far closer.

9/24/2019 1:23AM PDT
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Joe Carter = Eric Hosmer - post season heroes that were average to slightly above average for their careers.

This coming from a Royals fan.

Comment by tonyc149
9/22/2019 6:40PM PDT

Joe Carter is Eric Hosmer with more speed, power, RBInand the ability play the OF. These dudes aren't similar at all

9/24/2019 1:39AM PDT

Problem with Utley is that he has only 5 HOF seasons and the rest is meh. Yes he had some bit of longevity but he was a great second basemen for a bit who spent the rest of his career being marginal. 
back to Joe Carter. I am not saying he would be in my HOF. However, there was no point in either career where you would take Harold Baines over Joe Carter. Even his All star seasons were fringy. 

9/24/2019 1:50AM PDT

I'm still hanging on to the fact the SS team reward will be Babe just because they referenced that reward as "the big guy". 

I really think everyone is getting a free Ruth this year... 

 

Comment by jreypr
9/22/2019 2:17PM CDT

Yeah, I’ve been thinking the same since the first stream that featured the signature teams program. Even the guy who said that was wearing a Yankees jersey. 

9/24/2019 5:09AM PDT

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